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Friday, 29 September 2023

Brexit: unsettled and still not settleable

The most striking thing about Brexit is that, as many of them now accept, the Brexiters have failed to secure public support for actual Brexit – that is, the form of Brexit that exists. Indeed, some of the most committed Brexiters, including Nigel Farage, regard actual Brexit as having been a failure. But if actual Brexit has few defenders, every alternative to it has highly vocal attackers.

Brexit unsettled

I mention in the updated edition of my book on Brexit that David Frost suggested in an interview that: “one piece of evidence of failure [of Brexit] would be if we are still debating this in five- or six-years’ time in the same way. I think [if] it is to succeed it needs to settle in the British polity.” That was in June 2022, and over a year later there’s every sign that this test of failure is going to be met. It has not ‘settled in the British polity’, not least so far as public opinion is concerned.

Thus, the latest opinion poll (p.9 of report accessible via link) shows 49% would vote to rejoin, 38% to stay out, 7% don’t know and 5% would not vote. With the odd outlier, that has been pretty much what the polls have shown for two years now. Meanwhile, on the slightly different question of whether it was right or wrong to leave the EU, the latest poll shows 56% think it was a mistake to leave and just 32% that it was right (with 12% don’t knows), a lead for ‘mistake’ which has been slowly but steadily growing for the last two years. These polls are all the more remarkable given how little mainstream political support there has been to rejoin the EU, and the extent to which the pro-Brexit media have trumpeted the supposed success of Brexit.

But if there is something like a consensus that Brexit has failed, and a strong, though not overwhelming, degree of public support for rejoining as the solution, there’s almost no political consensus about the reasons for the failure and even less for rejoining being the solution. In particular, the leaders of the two main parties are committed to slightly, though, as I argued in last week’s post, genuinely, different versions of how the failures of actual Brexit can be remedied without fundamentally changing its institutional form, let alone rejoining the EU.

I say ‘the leaders of the two main parties’ because it is very clear that, within the Tory Party, there are many powerful groups, including most of its rank-and-file membership, which want a radically different, and much ‘harder’, policy than Sunak’s ad hoc fixes of aspects within the current Brexit. It’s not even as if the most important of those fixes, the Windsor Framework, can be seen to have ‘settled’, in that it is still strongly opposed by Northern Irish unionists and many Brexiters and, anyway, has yet to be implemented.  

Likewise, although perhaps less vocal, there are many in the Labour Party, and especially in its own rank-and-file, who would like something much softer, up to and including rejoining the EU, than Starmer’s more comprehensive softening of the current Brexit. For example, it is telling that Gordon Brown, whilst endorsing Starmer’s approach, advocates ultimately seeking to rejoin the EU. In this sense, the difference between the two parties’ approaches is greater than it appears on paper. For, behind it, lie much bigger differences in where the internal pressure on the leaders is pushing them.

Overall, having once been touted as a solution to Britain’s problems, actual Brexit is now almost universally understood in the commentary upon it to be a problem in need of a solution. However, since neither main party can explicitly, and certainly not fully, acknowledge this, their proposals are to different degrees anaemic. It’s difficult to think of any other issue in modern British political history, especially an issue of the magnitude of Brexit, where the substantive discussions occur to so great an extent outside formal politics. It’s almost the opposite of the way that, in the 2017-2019 period, the chaos and division in parliament very much represented that within the country. Now, such parliamentary debate about Brexit as occurs is a pale imitation of the wider discussions.

Associate membership?

One such discussion concerns the plan, floated in an academic report commissioned by the French and German governments, for forms of EU associate membership that could include the UK. In effect, this would be a form of soft Brexit and could include single market membership. Although, as I noted in last week’s post, a Labour spokesperson immediately dismissed it, it has found considerable support within the business community, which may well continue to pressure a future Labour government to at least give it serious consideration.

As for the Brexit commentariat, a common reaction was that this suggestion had come too late, and should have been made before the referendum. So said Patrick O’Flynn in the Spectator, Daniel Hannan in the Telegraph (£) and Roger Bootle, also in the Telegraph (£). The latter two, at least, seem to think that, prior to the referendum this would have been an acceptable outcome, but all three are adamant that it would no longer be so, although the arguments they advance for that – mainly about the UK being a ‘rule-taker’ – don’t really explain why, if that would have been acceptable before it has ceased to be. Indeed, if anything, that argument (which in any case somewhat understated the influence that, say, Norway has over single market rules) now looks weaker as, in practice, we have seen that hard Brexit in many ways makes the UK a de facto rule taker because of the impracticality of divergence.

In any case, it is disingenuous to say the idea has come too late, as it was floated several times in the years before the referendum, including in 2012, when some Brexiters (as we would now call them) dismissed it as a “Brussels plot to make Britain a second-class member”. It’s true that others of them welcomed it, and it’s also true that some Brexiters, including Hannan, advocated soft Brexit during the Referendum campaign (he even claimed, mendaciously, that “absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market”, when clearly many were). But it is misleading to suggest, as Hannan does, that this outcome was lost because the EU refused it (it was, after all, one, or depending how defined, three of the steps on the ‘Barnier staircase’ of Brexit options) or that it was simply down to Theresa May’s hostility to immigration.

Actually, it happened because ‘liberal Brexiters’ like Hannan hitched themselves to the hard Brexiters, knowing that their promotion of Brexit in order to end freedom movement of people was necessary to win the vote to leave. Then, afterwards, and without much opposition from the ‘liberal Brexiters', the hard Brexiters successfully bulldozed the idea that only leaving the single market would be ‘true Brexit’, enabled by May and her advisers, especially Nick Timothy.

Whilst this is now in some ways ancient history, it remains very much alive given the re-emergence of discussion of an associate membership model, in the new context of EU debates about enlargement. Equally, it remains alive for the UK given dissatisfaction with Brexit, and might well be the basis for public consensus. After all, not only do the articles mentioned provide no obvious reason why ‘soft Brexiters’ should not, now, support such a model given that they did before, they also acknowledge that it would have an appeal to some, probably many, remainers. And whilst O’Flynn claims “it would settle nothing and satisfy almost no one politically” he gives no real explanation of why that might so, whilst ignoring the fact that the same could certainly be said of the current situation.

Arguably, some form of soft Brexit would have been the most logical and consensual way of delivering the close Referendum result, given that it had happened, and the associate membership version of it would surely be a more logical position for a Labour government, inheriting a desperate economic situation and unburdened by the Tories’ fetishization of divergence from the EU at all costs. If Starmer’s fear is that it would mean freedom of movement of people then, apart from the fact that the UK continues to suffer serious labour shortages as a result of Brexit, those for whom the allure of hard Brexit was reducing immigration must surely by now to have realized that, for good reasons, that has not been its effect. Moreover, given that Labour recognize the need for a mobility agreement for travelling performers, there’s no real logic to refuse to see the damage that ending free movement has done more generally.

In fact, the main argument for a Labour government not to pursue associate membership (acknowledging that, as things stand, it is only an idea, not something that is on offer from the EU) is the possibility that it would be reversed by a future Tory government, making it harder to negotiate with the EU. For what very little it is worth, my guess is that something like associate membership is probably where both parties will settle within about ten years and, then, it will become the UK’s settled position in the EU.

The National Rejoin March

The unsettled nature of Brexit was illustrated by, as well as being the background to, last Saturday’s National Rejoin March, apparently, and if so shamefully, not reported by the BBC. Predictably, it was mocked by GB News as an “epic failure” on the basis that it had only attracted 5000 people, which, taken in conjunction with the Brexiters insistence that ‘the elite’ are on the point of rejoining, provides a fresh illustration of populists’ proclivity to depict their enemies as both hopelessly feeble and threateningly potent.

Actually, the march organizers claimed the police estimate to be over 20,000 which would be quite impressive, but even 5000 would have been a decent number. Any demonstration only mobilises a small fraction of those who support its cause, and that’s especially so when there is no current, live proposal on that cause, in this case to rejoin the EU, let alone a decision point on such a proposal. So the march was bound to be attended only by the hard core of the hard core of rejoin campaigners.

As such, it was fronted by some familiar figures. Without any disrespect to them, eventually a successful campaign will need both different and more high-profile figureheads, as Nick Tyrone argues in the Spectator, including a high-profile ex-Brexiter if one could be found. I don’t, though, think Tyrone is right to propose veterans like Ken Clarke or Michael Heseltine as alternatives; better would be people who hold, or might reach, the levers of conventional political power. It will also need a more pro-active and forward-looking message than ‘reversing Brexit’.

But that’s for the future. For now, what’s most important, even speaking as someone who thinks any prospect of rejoining is a long way off (or perhaps especially because I think that), is for that hard core of campaigners simply to ‘keep the dream alive’.  The Brexiters of GB News and elsewhere should be wary of mocking that. In the years before Brexit, their ‘dream’ of leaving was similarly only the passion of a hard core and, unlike that dream, the rejoin cause not only has a far clearer level of support in the opinion polls, it also has demographics on its side.

Rejoining and electoral politics

However, the current rejoin movement does differ from what became the Brexit movement in its relationship with political parties. It has no equivalent of UKIP, and there’s little sign of one developing. That seems wise, for two reasons. Firstly, whereas UKIP, ironically, was able to parasitically exploit proportional representation in the European Parliamentary elections to secure itself representation and legitimacy, this is obviously no longer open to a hypothetical rejoin party. Secondly, both for that reason and more generally, UKIP operated by pressurizing the Tory Party from the outside towards ‘Euroscepticism’ and, eventually, to hold the referendum. But, currently, partly because Brexit is not the only issue at stake, even for many rejoiners, such a tactic applied to pressurize the Labour Party, or even the LibDems, would carry what for many would be the unconscionable risk of enabling a Tory government, and very likely make any path to rejoining even longer, and to make Brexit even more damaging in the meantime.

The latter issue also makes life complicated for the individual voting decisions of rejoiners. There really isn’t much choice outside Scotland, where the SNP has a rejoin policy, although, naturally, that is very much a policy for Scotland joining the EU after gaining independence from the UK*. That lack of choice is partly for all the familiar reasons of the First Past the Post system, and the limitations that imposes even on tactical voting in many constituencies. But those reasons are compounded by the fact that no major party, even if the Greens are included amongst them, is offering a ‘rejoin now’ policy, although in Wales Plaid Cymru has a policy to rejoin the single market (I think, but may be wrong, without delay).  Labour’s position, discussed in my previous post, is at least currently opposed to ever rejoining, whilst the LibDems offer is ‘one day, but not now’.

So all that rejoiners really have as an option at the coming election is voting against the Tories, whatever the most effective way of doing that may mean in individual constituencies, on the basis that their Brexit position is the worst of the lot, and that the other parties might, in the future and with pressure, become closer to, or even come to embrace, rejoining. Not voting at all, or voting for a very fringe party that does support rejoin, might feel principled, but in practical terms just leaves it to others to decide what happens. And, beyond all that, rejoiners need to recognize that influencing UK policy is all they can do, and that is only one side of the equation because, of course, ultimately rejoining could only happen with the agreement of the EU and its members.

What should rejoiners do now?

One of the benefits of having re-opened comments on this blog, is that it enables me to respond to queries or even to requests for topics to be covered in posts. Last week, commenter Vivienne Pay asked for my “thoughts on what an active campaign movement to rejoin should look like to be effective”. I’m not the best person to answer, because I’m an analyst more than a campaigner and because, as noted above, I’m fairly cautious about the prospects for rejoining. I also suspect that some of my thoughts will be unpopular with some readers. But, for what little they may be worth, here they are:

DO …

·         Keep going. Whether rejoin is an immediate or, as I think, long prospect, it will only happen if there is pressure for it, and the more pressure there is the more likely it becomes. At the same time, recognize that it is going to be a long haul

·         Keep pointing to the failures of Brexit. That may be negative, and, ultimately, the campaign case for rejoining needs to be positive, but we are not in that campaign yet. Although public opinion may have turned against Brexit to keep it that way, and to harden and extend it, the message of its failure, and of the failed promises made for it, still needs to be communicated. That doesn’t, of course, preclude also pointing to the positive advantages of membership which, in many cases, will be the flip-side of the negatives of Brexit anyway.

·         Be prepared for support for rejoin and opposition to Brexit to fluctuate in the opinion polls, especially to the extent that they are bound up with the current unpopularity of the Tories and the current cost-of-living crisis. Opinion polls matter hugely, but they’re not, in themselves, a reason to argue for or against rejoining. The case for doing so would be the same, even if it had less support. Equally, the current polls are by no means overwhelming, and public support for rejoining shouldn’t be over-stated or taken for granted.

·         React positively to leave voters who openly express regret. Their votes will be needed, and the more who publicly recant without being pilloried, the more likely it is that their numbers will grow. Even saying ‘I told you so’, whilst hugely tempting, is self-indulgent and counter-productive.

·         Ignore getting tangled in issues about whether rejoining means joining the Euro, or Schengen, or what it would means for budget contributions. For one thing, it’s too early to know what it means. For another, it risks getting drawn into the old transactional mentality of ‘what do we put in’ and the old Eurosceptic mentality of ‘what can we get out of’ that blighted our original membership.

·         More generally, configure the issue as ‘joining’ rather than ‘rejoining’: it’s about the future, not resurrecting the past. Both the UK and the EU will be different.

DON’T …

·         Keep banging on about the 2016 Referendum having ‘only been advisory’. It was always a politically meaningless argument, and after the Article 50 vote in parliament it was legally meaningless, too. It’s backward-looking, and just feeds the Brexiter narrative of remainers ‘refusing to accept the result’. If you don’t agree, just try to imagine who on earth is going to hear you say it for the umpteenth time and suddenly think ‘oh, well, in that case I think we should rejoin’. The answer is literally no one.

·         Keep banging on about how ‘only 37% of the electorate voted for it in 2016’. That, too, was always a pointless argument - votes are decided by those who vote. Again, if you don’t agree, ask yourself the question who is going to hear you say it for the umpteenth time and suddenly think ‘oh, well, in that case I think we should rejoin’? Again, the answer is no one.

·         Assume that individual EU politicians saying that the UK is welcome back any time it is ready is the same as that being the position of the EU or its members. Think instead about making the case for why the rejoining could be made more attractive to the EU (this point is developed in some detail by Niall Ó Conghaile in East Anglia Bylines). Don’t repeat the Brexiters’ mistake of seeing everything in terms of UK politics and UK needs, or of assuming that the UK knows ‘what is in the EU’s best interest’.

·         Dismiss any progress short of rejoining as a waste of time. Even if the immediate practical benefits are tiny, they are better than measures which do even more harm, and simply repairing the damage to the UK’s reputation and trustworthiness in the EU is helpful and will take time – and will be one pre-requisite of making any UK application to join appealing to the EU.

Brexit un-settleable

How the rejoin movement conducts itself, and how it develops, will be one factor in what happens with Brexit. The outcome of the next election will be another. Ultimately, Brexit will not ‘settle’ until there is a durable political and public consensus, and the leadership to deliver that consensus, whether it be for some version of hard Brexit, for some version of soft Brexit – perhaps in some form of associate membership – or for rejoining, whether fully or in a different form of associate membership.

The situation we face seems to be far better understood abroad than here. If Brexiters’ really had global vision, as opposed to a hubristic vision of Global Britain, they might be aware of the withering way Brexit is now reported in India (“Brexit: Fatal for Britain?”), China (“UK public realizes Brexit folly, but return to EU not so easy”) or the United States (“In the UK, a disaster no one wants to talk about”). Notably, all these reports concern the disjuncture between, on the one hand, the effects of Brexit and the public view of it and, on the other, the politics of Brexit.

Indeed, what seems so obvious from abroad, and to many at home, is still barely hinted at within formal politics. Some of that is fear of leave voters, of whom there are still many. Some of it is fear of reviving the political toxicity of Brexit, though that is probably more specifically fear of the pro-Brexit media. In fact, though it is a topic for another day, the nature of the British media is perhaps the single biggest cause of the current Brexit impasse. That’s not because the media are all-powerful. It hasn’t stopped the British people coming to the view that Brexit has failed. But it is certainly one of the reasons why so many politicians are too scared to say that out loud, and to propose – or even debate – genuine solutions.

 

 

*It’s not clear to me, and I would be happy to be enlightened, what the SNP view would be of the UK rejoining the EU. Would it welcome and support that, on the basis that Scotland never wanted to leave? Or see it as taking away a potent argument for Scottish independence from the UK?


Note: This post was updated at 09.00 on 29/09/2023 to remove a claim made about numbers on the rejoin march which turned out to refer to a previous march.

80 comments:

  1. Dear Prof. Grey, unfortunately the Evening Standard article you link to about the Rejoin March is from last year. But if last year's turnout was 15k and this year's 20k that's a good trend :-)

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    1. Aggh! Thanks for pointing out my error, and apologies for making it. I have now removed that claim and link, and added a note at the bottom of the post to say it was updated.

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    2. I went to both - I think if anything last year's was bigger, it was certainly more vibrant / noisy - it would be interesting if anyone else who went to both thought the same

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    3. I would agree with your assessment. I get the feeling that many pro-EU supporters are possibly seeing the marches as ineffective, especially when protesting about the actions of such a cynical and manipulative government as this one. Other activities may be proving more effective.

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  2. Thanks for all your efforts

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    1. Another anonymous fan adds: Thank you for years of perceptive and well-informed commentary, intelligent analysis, and beautifully-structured sentences. Such a rare commodity!

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  3. "In fact .... the nature of the British media is perhaps the single biggest cause of the current Brexit impasse. That’s not because the media are all-powerful. .... But it is certainly one of the reasons why so many politicians are too scared to say that out loud, and to propose – or even debate – genuine solutions."

    Yes, indeed, and it is one of the main reasons that Brexit happened. The press, particularly the Murdoch press, propagated myths about the EU for more than 10 years and politicians did very little to push back against this propaganda. Denis MacShane said, in a book review in International Affairs about 2 years ago, that he tried to get Tony Blair to make some positive speeches about the EU and Blair said openly that he couldn't do that because he would lose the support of Rupert Murdoch.

    As I said last week, any pro-EU movement is going to have to do much more than go around saying "Re-join". It is going to have to do some basic myth-busting because nobody else is going to do it.

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    1. However true this is (and it is) it contradicts the argument ("Don'ts" above) that banging on about the past can be counter-productive.

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    2. Johnson himself was responsible for originating many of those myths (I believe it was he who invented the "bendy bananas" thing). I think, also, that unchallenged myths about immigration, and the contribution or strain that having more immigrants make is something that politicians are over cautious about challenging, probably partly down to fear of how that would be treated in the British press.

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  4. "It’s not clear to me, and I would be happy to be enlightened, what the SNP view would be of the UK rejoining the EU. Would it welcome and support that, on the basis that Scotland never wanted to leave? Or see it as taking away a potent argument for Scottish independence from the UK?"

    I'm not aware of any official position on that either, but it certainly would be in the SNP's long term interest to have the UK in the Single Market and Customs Union at least because assuming Scotland joined either too upon independence it would make the question of UK-Scotland border arrangements so much easier. I doubt a customs and regulatory border on the island of Great Britain would be a great vote winner.

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    1. I'd agree with that Florian. If Scotland became independent and decided to join the single market or EU, England and Wales might be forced to align or the single market of Britain would not be able to function.

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  5. The comment about BBC coverage is interesting. The national broadcaster was able to find time to cover 200 people protesting at the banning of dangerous dogs. A protest in London on the same day.

    While newspaper readership is in decline, and many younger voters get news from Facebook, the BBC rely on them.

    The Today programme “review” of the papers after the 6am news fixes the agenda. Reading the headlines from the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Times, Sun etc is sufficient to develop the political talking points of the day.

    The BBC often seem to wait for “permission” from the Daily Mail to take a position.

    It is in that context the issues on the news agenda are presented. Newspapers are important because of who thinks they are important.

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  6. Your latest opinion poll link is wrong

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  7. One more in a long line of must-read educational articles - please keep up your excellent work!

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  8. Although alluding to the the fact that only 37% of the electorate voted for brexit may now be a pointless argument it should not stop the Rejoin Movement for calling for an Inquiry into 2016 referendum. The lies, the cheating and the extent of the Russian interference all need to be officially documented.
    You are right that Theresa May chose a hard brexit because of immigration - she had failed so dismally in her previous remit as Home Secretary to reduce it she thought brexit would do this. Instead the UK has simply reduced immigration from the EU and increased it from elsewhere.

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    1. It also ultimately explains the other big elephant in the room - ie how an eighty seat majority looks like being overturned in a single term. (Remember the Amersham by election was widely dismissed as a blip a couple of yer By becoming the real Brexit party, Conservatives have not only hitched to an anti business failure, but also restricted their voting pool to 37% of the electorate.

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  9. Do you see any advantage in a visibly EU-wide party, e.g ALDE (Alliance of Liberals and Democrats in Europe) campaigning as such in British elections, even if only council elections? ALDE is both an alliance of national liberal and democratic parties and also open to individual membership.

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  10. Thanks for the Blog and highlighting on going issues. I was at the Rejoin march and can confirm circa 20k plus. The Bully XL gathering was about 200 or so and blocking one side of Westminster Bridge!. Having attended last year's march which was delayed a month because of the Queen's death, this one was much larger. There were difficulties with the wireless microphones/sound system but otherwise a good event, with lots of good natured banter and realisation this will be a long project. Also this is a project for the younger generation even if it is represented in the flesh by rather an ageing demos, though not entirely, self included!.

    It would be good to get some people perhaps like Jurgen Maier and other business small and large as well as creative industry movers and shakers to speak at next year's march. Tyrone is correct to some degree on this, ie don't stick with the same broken record, Article 49 is the goal. Unfortunately for the Conservatives this is not going away.

    The failure of the BBC goes back well before the Referendum, you only have to look at the quality of debate prior to the 1975 one on TV, radio etc. Two minute soundbites do not allow subjects to be explored properly in depth. There are very few long form political debates or thinking discussions on TV, though some on radio.

    Issues such as Mrs May deciding to effectively end the UK automotive industry, though for now it will be kept alive through tax payer subsidy will become more salient. Same with Galileo costing in excess of 1.7 billion per day I believe. The UK at war with a nation with a GPS system would be interesting to say the least.... Ultimately the difference in wealth between EU members and the UK will force political parties to address the issue of at least Single Market membership through EEA or the newer outer tier of the EU. The counterfactual is important here. Honda shut down the plant at Swindon, Mercedes were to build a new plant in the NE, Tesla built in Berlin, Ineos went to Frnace, Intel avoided the UK with massive EU investment and recntly TSMC have invested in Saxony's Silicon Valley.

    I will respond on the UPC mentioned in comments a couple of weeks ago in the next week or so.

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    1. Many of the speakers on the March were young. OK, Guy Verhofstad is hardly a spring chicken, and Steve Bray is quite mature, but he has become the face of the anti-Brexit movement for many people. Most of the other speakers (I would hazard a guess) were under 30.

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    2. Variously reported (12 months ago), Intel is to spend €80 billion across Europe ex UK - astonishing! A massive investment project in new tech that has not been noticed by the British press.

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  11. Long time reader first time contributor. Any insights into what the DUP are looking for this time? Do you think they will return to Stormont before the next election?

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    1. Anyone who can figure out what the DUP is going to do would be in great demand by the DUP. They have painted themselves into a corner with no obvious way out. Sunak reached them a broom handle with the “Windsor” Agreement but they were too stubborn to grab it.

      Accepting that their real objection is to serving with a Nationalist First Minister - ie refusing to agree to democracy - there seems little option for them other than to wait for the next NI elections in the hope they somehow reverse their losses. That seems unlikely.

      NI is now firmly on the path to a united Ireland as the only solution to its foundational problems, while the DUP is trying to go back to the days of Partition. A split in the party seems inevitable, which will only bring forward the date of UI.

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  12. Your article helps explain the otherwise inexplicable view of brexit those in the UK seem to have, compared to the rest of us (I live in France - thank goodness) As you point out, pretty much the whole of the rest of the world thinks brexit is a self-inflicted disaster.

    I have a small chance to do something about this, in that I am about to complete my postal vote for the Mid-Beds by-election - I am not a natural Labour voter at all, but I feel I have no choice but to tactically vote for them as they seem the most likely to be able to topple the incumbent Tories. Again, exactly as you wrote.

    This could be due to me being professor-quality material :-) or more likely, because you are required reading for me and have been since your blog started. Please do not take such a long summer break again!

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    1. Thanks for this, and for having read from the beginning!

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  13. I would be interested in Chis Grey's views on the subject of the euro, which is often brought up by defensive Brexiters. Obviously this wouldn't affect the idea of associate membership - but it also seems to me the EU would have no issues about a relatively stable and historic currency like sterling rejoining the bloc ?

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    1. Hardly relevant, if as I suspect, any application to re-join, joining the currency would be a prerequisite.

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    2. It is not really a prerequisite, otherwise none of the nations which joined since the creation of the Euro would have been able to join.
      Croatia, for example, joined the EU in 2013 and has only this year switched from Kuna to Euro.

      It takes a lot of effort to achieve the Euro entry criteria and there is no way to tell if the UK would do better than the last time it tried

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    3. While that was asked of Mr Grey, and I'm sure it will be a topic in his posts, for me he's addressed it to his dos and don'ts.

      The UK hasn't even got the beginning of an accession request yet so we have no idea what would be the hypothetical case, far less the response to it and even less how any negotiation could go.

      What we know is it will he different people on all sides doing the negotiations in very different circumstances.

      One of the big failures of the current debate for me (Grey very much excluded) is that it is mostly about what would happen if we do something in current circumstances. Very little commentary takes into account that by definition for the UK to apply for membership circumstances will have changed hugely.

      If / when the UK makes such an application its just as likely that sterling won't be any more totemic than the DM or Franc were when Germany and France gave those up. My view is that sterling is a fairly rubbish currency and the way it bounces around with every idiot announcement by UK MPs shows that we would be better with the euro. Which right now is a very minority opinion I know but a UK prepared to apply for EU membership would be one in a very different political situation to now so who knows if the public mood would have shifted in my direction by then.

      Equally, the EU27 or whatever number it is then (maybe more, maybe fewer, maybe the same but in a different configuration) would have different priorities and interests.

      That's all me just guessing but one thing I would say more objectively is don't overestimate sterling's resilience. The UK is severely constrained in what it can do in some respects because the £ just isn't big enough to support many kinds of major government or BoE interventions. With the current maniacs in charge that is perhaps a good thing but it also adds to the problems in the government's finances and the national balance sheet. Up to now policy makers have generally preferred keeping the pound because that provides more flexibility and control. If that changes and sterling becomes a problem for them then that could change.

      Or maybe it will go the other way. Perhaps some unforeseen events will do real damage to the Euro and sterling will be the thing to have.

      Basically, I just don't think it's even worth engaging in a conversation about what's likely to happen about sterling. The hypothetical are fun but meaningless right now.

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  14. Rejoiners should also emphasise the fact that when leading Brexit talking heads complain about ''Brexit betrayal'', there was never, ever a one size fits all Brexit that was the same today as it was seven years ago. And crucially, not the same Brexit that could ever satisfy those who voted for it and were told it meant different things with differing outcomes.

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  15. Every time a brexiter pops up on TV to tell us that this is not the “true brexit”, the interviewer never asks them the obvious follow up question, “so what would a true brexit consist of?” Because I genuinely would like to know what it is they think that’s not bring done to make it into a true brexit.

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    1. Since 2016, the media has always given the brexiters on TV a very easy ride. Interviewers never tested the claims of the 'easiest deal in history' nor after the referendum did they challenge the drift from a soft brexit to a very hard brexit and how this drift contradicted the vision advanced by so many brexit advocates during the campaign. "What's wrong with being like Norway", Nigel Farage. The media played a central role in not holding brexit politicians to account and still does.

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  16. I don't really understand what you say about the First Past the Post voting system, Chris. I'm not a great fan of changing to PR, and it seems to me that far too often Remainers, Rejoiners, Brexitsceptics or Centists or whatever we call ourselves too often take for granted the idea that FPTP is bad.

    You imply it limits the choice of voters, but it doesn't: the range of parties available to vote for is the same as it would be under PR, as it is indeed in Holyrood politics. If we had PR at Westminster level Rejoiners would still have to choose which party to give their votes to and in what order, and that'd be no easier.

    You also suggest FPTP inhibits tactical voting - but PR fans tend to argue for change precisely because they think FPTP requires lots of people to vote tactically rather than (as PR fans see it) honestly. Which is it? Does FPTP limit tactical voting or force it?

    From a Remain/Rejoin point of view it's possible to regret not having had PR in 2015, on the basis that there wouldn't then have been a Tory majority and a referendum. Fair enough; but had we had PR in 2010 we might conceivably have had a Con-UKIP government, and Brexit a few years earlier. In fact as you say, nothing helped the Brexit movement more than the PR system used in European elections.

    For the future, I don't think it's obvious either than a change to PR would help the Rejoin cause (or as I prefer to think of it, the "get back to a positive maximally engaged heart-of-Europe policy whether we can rejoin or not" cause). PR would probably dilute the coming Conservative defeat quite a bit, whereas what the country needs more than anything is to see the decisive rejection of the way that party's carried on for the last 5 or 6 years. Only a big defeat will help them and us move on from the Brexit madness. The best hope for a change of political weather in the near future is a majority Labour government (and I am not a member of that party) able to pursue a more rational European policy without having to worry about close votes or having to negotiate with the SNP - whose selfish political interest does not lie in a successful Uk solution to Brexit division. FPTP is much more likely to deliver that than would any version of PR.

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    1. I am being very much aware of the drawbacks of PR, but we are living, no, marooned in the drawbacks of FPTP -- a Tory party that has transformed into an English National Party alternating in power forever. It would be nice to start with something milder like STV -- rank the bastards and take it from there.

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    2. Thanks, Carl. I’m not sure if I fully understand your argument, but my point was just the very simple one that, under PR, if (say) the LDs had a rejoin policy then a rejoin voter could simply vote for them in the expectation that (depending on the exact nature of the PR system in place) that vote would yield some representation. Whereas, under FPTP, that vote would only yield representation if the LD candidate won.

      I don’t quite get why you would disagree with that, given that you seem to agree with my point that PR in EP elections was helpful to UKIP.

      I didn’t intend to suggest that FPTP inhibits tactical voting – on the contrary, I think it encourages it, and tried to suggest as much in the paragraph about the choices available to individual rejoin voters.

      I do agree that FPTP is much more likely to deliver a huge blow to the Tories at the next election than PR would do, but the bigger issue (i.e. leaving aside not just the fate of the Tories as the next GE, but also Brexit, rejoining, etc.) is what is a fair voting system in principle, rather than the desirability of what FPTP might deliver at any particular time.

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    3. As living in an PR system (the Netherlands), it is beyond obvious to me that the whole point of PR (as opposed to FTPT) is that a governement must be formed from a truly proportional representation in the House of Commons by a set of MP's, who - logically - proportionally represent each party. I would be very interested to learn how many seats would actually remain with Labour or the Conservatives and if they would actually be able to form a government whose policies could then be 'pushed' through parliament. This is the first and most primal form of 'checks and balances' in a modern democracy. FPTP, in combination with the perverse UK-media landscape, serves only the elite and not the electorate as a whole.

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    4. Carl: you said “ … had we had PR in 2010 we might conceivably have had a Con-UKIP government, and Brexit a few years earlier.” That’s not the case. FPTP resulted in 307C, 258L, 57LD. AV would have given us 281C, 262L, 79LD. STV would have given us 246C, 207L, 162LD. But no UKIP MPs.

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    5. Chris, the reason I disagree is simply that I'm a PR sceptic for Westminster! I don't think PR would be fairer or better than what we have now. My scepticism is principled, not just instrumental. I'm butting in with this because I think PR has become packaged up with centrist, Remainy opinions for a lot of people and want to challenge that a bit if I can!

      I do see your point about LibDem representation but they don't have rejoin policy so there would actually be no extra choice. Easy to say they would have a rejoin policy under PR, but I don't think they would.

      Rudolf, what you describe isn't the system anywhere, including NL where there is an opposition and for example the PvdA have been out of power as have Wilders's and Baudet's party. This sort of debate can often make someone like me sound critical of other countries (which I'm not) but the Dutch system has flaws too: you have had the extraordinary rise of multiple troubling populist and rightwing movements including the BBB now, and you always have governments no one has actually voted for. You also have a bit of a trend towards politicians not really wanting to govern, like I think the SP and Omtzigt.

      Anonymous, you're assuming that under a PR system everyone would have voted in the same way: but the very reason many people want PR is because of the point Chris made, that many people would vote differently. I think it's obvious that under, say, STV, many 2010 Conservative voters would have voted UKIP 1, Conservative 2. But even ignoring that big point, this analysis https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/blog/2015/04/01/2010-general-election-under-proportional-representation (which has other flaws) suggested UKIP would have had 20 seats. I wonder where your figures come from.

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    6. Carl, to be sure, no system will ever be perfect. However, PR - for all flaws that it has - still ensures that the legislative body will always be made up of a proprotional number of representatives of any political conviction and / or groups within a society. Yes, in the Netherlands we suffer from the 'single issue' parties such as the PVV, that hitch a ride on any hyped topic in the media (much like incompetents such as Suella Braverman in the UK), conveniently disregarding the fact that any politician is required to come up with policies for all the other subjects that don't bring voters, but are nonetheless vital to a society. Disregarding the 'dissatisfiers' may thus help to win votes, but exposes such one issue parties for the administrative or governing voids they essentially are when elected to a position of power.

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  17. Excellent article, as erudite as ever. I've seen on FB the standard response by the BBC to complaints about their lack of coverage of the rejoin march. It's a copy and paste job, and I can't help wondering if they were ordered by the 'government' not to cover the event, on pain of extinction. Did ITV and Sky News follow in the interests of solidarity? Please to see however, a number of foreign media organisations did cover the march, clearly realising what a colossal catastrophe Brexit is. We are probably the only country to impose trade sanctions on ourselves.

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    1. "We are probably the only country to impose trade sanctions on ourselves."
      Not so. The whole of Europe has recently done this, trading cheap Russian gas for expensive US gas, and courting European mass de-industrialisation.

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    2. I'd be wary of conspiracy theories - it's inconceivable that the government "ordered" the BBC not to report the march, and there's even less reason to think that this would have led to Sky and ITV following "in the interests of solidarity". If anything, they'd have reported such an order as a huge story. The issue, and it is genuine and important one, is about editorial judgements in the context of prevailing orthodoxies, but it's a subtle one.

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    3. Not really the same. That situation was a direct consequence of the invasion of Ukraine. Ours was purely self administered by the 'oven ready' deal in 2020, before Ukraine blew up.

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    4. Chris, I couldn't disagree with you less. I was just being provocative. However, the question remains. Does the BBC feel under pressure, either self imposed or external, not to cover these events, and why did our other broadcasters not cover it?

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    5. Got it. Barwise & York's book, The War Against the BBC (Penguin 2020) is good on this kind of issue/ question

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    6. The Conservative Govt don't need to 'instruct' the BBC to do anything, as they have succeeded in the strategy commenced by Cameron & Osborne in 2010 in incrementally filling key News & Editorial positions with their acolytes in order to control the state media narrative, the culmination of which was the installation of Robbie Gibb on the BBC Board in 2021 to impose R-wing ideology from the top down.

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  18. Interesting piece Prof. I tend to agree, that the sone of consensus is sone form of Associate membership. Would it be of benefit if ‘Rejoin’ advocates adopted this stance sooner rather than later? In other words, does a campaign to ‘Join’ as full members spook a constituency we need to come on board and slow down our becoming Associate Members?

    One further point. I accept what you say about migration continuing and the need for such. But just because it has continued doesn’t mean those who are anti migration will accept Freedom of Movement.

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  19. Having visited last week, Arundell, the home in retirement of Edward Heath, I was reminded why the UK needed to join the then Common Market. Perhaps our MPs ought to visit this house in Salisbury, as Edward Heath had a clear vision of the UK's place in Europe and the rest of the world.
    Maybe our nation is still in shock that the promises from certain politicians of "sunlit uplands" from Brexit were were just dreams. We also may be seeing from voters the realisation that perhaps an Eton and Oxford education isn't the best training for logical thought processes, but where class prejudices are just reinforced.
    For 40 years all the ills of our nation were blamed by our right-wing press on the EU. Surely, it's a shock to our national pride that the country itself is at fault, not others.
    I'm unsure where we go from here, given Labour's timidity on Europe.

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  20. Our first pro-join message should be that Europe is a huge, diverse, exiting place, full of new experiences and friends we have not yet met. Many of us work with people who came to the UK from other EU countries and we know the value they bring - and not just the labour supply. Equally, our own freedom to move around our European home was a huge privilege.
    If we sell FOM, the deal is done.

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  21. Good that comments are now open, I have been reading your articles here for several years and find them very good.

    Regarding the BBC: here in Germany there is no national broadcaster and there cannot be one, the federal government is not permitted to run broadcasting services. The constitution reserves broadcasting to the Bundesländer (states). In each state there is a public service broadcasting authority.

    In the state in which I live (North-Rhine Westfalia), the public service broadcaster is known as WDR. It was set up after World War II under the British occupation and was consciously modelled on the BBC. Its first Director was Hugh Greene, who later became Director-General of the BBC.

    In one respect however, it differs from the BBC. It is controlled by a Rundfunkrat (Broadcasting Council) composed of representatives of various social groups: political parties, religious bodies, trade unions, employers' associations, disabled people's associations etc.

    It seems that in many cases, the British imposed very sensible rules in their occupation zone with the aim of preventing a return of fascism, but neglected to enact similar rules for the UK itself, thinking, perhaps complacently, that they were not needed.

    On a different point, perhaps it would be a good idea if anonymous contributors used a name to identify themselves.

    (signed) Hosenboden.

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    1. Very good. The Federal Republic was also set up with proportional representation (with a 5% cutoff), which of course we can't allow for Westminster elections as it would lead to, ahem, 'instability', and might, ahem, let the far right gain power ... A J Paxton

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    2. The Scottish Parliament is elected by a form of PR. Westminster is happy with this for other governments, even within the UK, but not for themselves.

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  22. Thanks for this. Very interesting. On your last point, I agree it would be better of commenters identified themselves, not least as all the 'Anonymous' posts get confusing when there are lots of them. I will add a request to people to do so in the comments policy. I could set comments so as to disallow Anonymous postings, but that would mean that only posters with a Google account could comment, which seems too restrictive.

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    1. Chris, your blog has been a beacon of sanity these last crazy seven years, but I wonder if it has outgrown wobbly old Blogspot... Maybe set up a Substack and redirect there?? A J Paxton

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    2. Thanks. I did run a survey of readers in February 2022 asking about moving to Substack and the response was overwhelmingly 'don't' (the results are still available in the 'Pages' list on the blog). I agree Blogspot is wobbly and now seems very dated, but for my sort of text-based stuff it seems to do the job. I also worry a bit about transferring the back-catalogue over to a new platform. TBH I still feel conflicted about this issue but I kind of agree with the many respondents to the survey who said it's not broke so don't fix it. Plus I am not very tech-minded. But I ponder it from time to time. Thoughts from you or anyone else on this would be welcome.

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    3. Oh, sorry, the survey results page is no longer available. Anyway, I think about 80% who responded said 'no' to Substack - though of course a survey of exiting readers is likely to be biased.

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  23. Wise, as always, Chris, thank you. Regarding your point that "However, the current rejoin movement does differ from what became the Brexit movement in its relationship with political parties. It has no equivalent of UKIP, and there’s little sign of one developing" - do you completely discount the Rejoin EU Party? https://therejoineuparty.com/ I fear your predictions about the potential for such a vehicle to split the anti-Tory vote may prove prophetic

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    1. Thanks. I think it is unlikely to take off

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  24. I like your dos & don'ts for British Europeans. I would add, we need to build a European culture here in the UK, and, especially, in and for England, as it was in England-outside-London where, as Anthony Barnett observed, the Brexit referendum vote broke 60/40 in favour of leaving the EU. Vote Leave won the culture war hands down. At times it felt like, economic forecasts versus Lest We Forget. Guess which side won?

    Changing the culture is, unfortunately, a long-term process, which is one reason why I think rapprochement with the EU will take generations, if it happens at all. If we don't do the work, though, I worry that England may sink into a culture of exceptionalist grievance and resentment, akin to that of Serbia or Russia. 'We won the war, we saved the world, but we lost the peace - the treacherous defeated Europeans ganged up on us behind our backs (and the Americans refused to forgive our debts).' Something like this is the victimhood narrative underlying Brexit.

    It is endorsed mainly by older people, but we shouldn't underestimate the transmission belts spreading it to the young: The intensely nationalistic world of football (Gareth Southgate's remarks about 'people who tried to invade us'); the right-wing media - the old Tory press may be dying, but big money feeding on grievances will find new outlets; war movies like '1917'; the way we remember the war dead and wounded, a good thing to do in itself, but framed in a way that emphasises sacrifice and loss but doesn't offer a path to reconciliation and peace building. King Charles visited Hamburg recently to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the firebombing of the city by the RAF. How widely was that reported in the UK media? Peacebuilding and reconciliation aren't part of our national narrative, except locally in places like Coventry and among certain communities. That needs to be changed.

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    1. Oops pressed Publish too soon - it was me that wrote this - A J Paxton

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  25. Thank you Prof. Grey for your dedication to the task of analysing and informing people about the consequences of Brexit.
    Please consider writing an article about what a future UK membership of the EU might involve and the mindset shift in the UK electorate that would be necessary before it could happen.
    Let me give you an example of what I mean:
    My wife and I recently took an extended tour of Denmark, Sweden and Norway. We discovered a level of historic animosity between the three countries that was a real eye-opener. The relatively high level of cooperation and goodwill between them in recent decades reinforced, for me at least, the origins of the EU as a ‘peace project’ (although I recognise that Norway is not an EU member but a third-country participant in its Single Market). They still cling fiercely to their national distinctiveness (not least through the retention of their own individual currencies).
    As we travelled, I asked people we met about their views on the EU. I would summarise the responses as follows: “being in the EU (or Single Market in the case of Norway) can be very frustrating because no-one ever gets exactly what they want but, ultimately, that is the beauty of it. It requires compromise (often very hard fought compromise) between political and ideological opposites. Most participants would prefer outcomes better suited to their own country’s specific needs/wishes without taking into account those of their neighbours. The result is a sense of dissatisfaction tempered (when properly considered) by the knowledge that the outcome is still better than the alternative of a fractured, fractious (and potentially violent) relationship with neighbouring countries.”

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  26. Thank you for your continuing clear, logical, nuanced and referenced analysis—over the past years a welcome contrast to the reductionist, polarising, sloganism of so many 'commentators'.
    Regarding PR, Ian Dunt (in 'How Westminster Works—and Why It Doesn't') makes further points about its benefits, beyond reflecting the reality of a spectrum of views. It forces MP to talk to, and negotiate with, each other, and helps mitigate the party-centric short-termism of the current FPTP system.
    There must be a reason why many more counties use a form of PR (and many of those who don't are ex-British colonies!).*
    Kit Byatt

    *https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/how-many-countries-around-the-world-use-proportional-representation/

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  27. Just to thank you for these invaluable blog posts. I've read every one of them, along with your excellent book. I do hope you will continue with them - as you say, this issue isn't going away, because Brexit is an ongoing process, not a past event.

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  28. Mr Keith Macdonald1 October 2023 at 11:38

    The SNP could not oppose any move towards rejoining/ a better relationship but they would always say that it was not enough or likely to fail. Psychologically they are much happier when Britain is badly governed or on a downward path. This tendency has got more pronounced as they have come under pressure and dropped in the polls. The virulence of their attacks on Labour shows this.

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    1. The SNP campaigned harder against Brexit than Cameron's official Remain campaign did. And Nicola Sturgeon stated, while still First Minister, that she would accept a deal similar to N Ireland "in a heartbeat".

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  29. ''DON’T …

    · Keep banging on about the 2016 Referendum having ‘only been advisory’. It was always a politically meaningless argument, and after the Article 50 vote in parliament it was legally meaningless, too. It’s backward-looking, and just feeds the Brexiter narrative of remainers ‘refusing to accept the result’. If you don’t agree, just try to imagine who on earth is going to hear you say it for the umpteenth time and suddenly think ‘oh, well, in that case I think we should rejoin’. The answer is literally no one.''

    You are, as one commenter has already put it, a beacon of sanity. It therefore distresses me to find that you consider the triggering of Article 50 to be legitimate. For 7 years I thought that Parliament had voted to allow the Prime Minister (Theresa May) to decide whether Article 50 should be triggered (knowing that she was so minded), rather than appear to be undemocratic by further debating the issue. May's justification for triggering Article 50 falsely implied that the Referendum had been binding.

    I accept the result of the advisory Referendum, the significance of which must be viewed in context. There was no binding referendum to accept the result of. I agree this is backward looking - history is important.

    So I tried to imagine who on Earth is going to hear me say for the umpteenth time that the Referendum was advisory and suddenly think ‘oh, well, in that case I think we should rejoin’. I would have hoped the answer would include all those who were persuaded (by either mainstream party) that promises to implement the result overrode legislation, that the Referendum was democratic, but suddenly realise the deceit.

    If you consider Brexit to be legitimate, does that mean that you would support the need for a supermajority in a future binding referendum on whether Brexit should be undone?

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    1. You are talking about two different things.

      "Out of all the myths and lies that led to Brexit, which is the most important"

      Versus

      "Out of all the myths and lies that led to Brexit, which is the best starting point to show the electorate that they were conned."

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  30. Thanks, Donald. Well, like it or not, the Article 50 vote happened, even if for the reason you give. So, yes, it was legitimate within our system - which is all we have. As for any future referendum, yes I think it would have to require a super-majority, but not so much to make it legitimate as because, politically, a situation to rejoin on the back of another 52-48 vote (but the other way) would be a disaster, for us and the EU. As to your idea of who is going to now be persuaded by the 'it was only advisory' point I would gently suggest that there must be very few people, if any, left who would be receptive to that argument but only seven years later become persuaded by it. I honestly think it is a totally dead duck - at the very, very least it is surely not where the priority for debate or campaigning now lies.

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  31. "But it is misleading to suggest, as Hannan does, that this outcome [membership of the Single Market] was lost because the EU refused it ....... or that it was simply down to Theresa May’s hostility to immigration."

    Possibly Hannan means that the EU refused to countenance UK membership of the Single Market while being able to opt out of lots of the rules. That is often what Brexiteers mean when they say that the EU refused to negotiate.

    We should remember that in 2016 it wasn't only May who was hostile to FoM. Very few politicians were willing to defend Freedom of Movement, even those who were nominally in favour of Remain. Very few politicians, or newspaper columnists, pointed out that May was boxing herself in. Chuka Umunna and Rachel Reeves put out statements saying that FoM had to end. Jonathan Freedland wrote several comment pieces in the Guardian criticising Jeremy Corbyn for being in favour of FoM. Even nominally Remain politicians and commentators were under the delusion that it would be possible to negotiate opt-outs.

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    1. The topic of FoM is indeed a very strange issue for some in the UK.

      The discussion usually ignores that it has four aspects (goods, services, capital and people) and it gets confused or mixed up with immigration.

      One of Chris' earlier posted linked to a transcript of a meeting of the parliamentary Brexit commitee who had invited Sir Ivan Rogers.

      When asked about his account of Cameron's negotiations he remembered that none of the other leaders understood why he was talking to them on the topic of immigration.

      Apparently the UK was the only member which considered the internal movement of citizens to be immigration.

      For them immigration is the movement of non-citizens and they each handle it according to their respective needs

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    2. One of the main architects of the Single Market was Margaret Thatcher. The Single Market is centred on the free movement of goods, services, capital and people. All of the UK's political and media institutions thought that this was a good thing at the time. Later, the Single Market was expanded to east and southern Europe. All of the UK's political and media institutions thought that this was a good thing at the time. Then the Polish plumbers arrived and panic set in, and nobody would defend FoM. I have heard Stefaan De Rynck speak a couple of times, and he obviously finds it incomprehensible that UK politicians (of various persuasions) wanted opt-outs from FoM.

      In the 2015/2016 articles in the Guardian by Jonathan Freedland that I mention above, Freedland says that it was unrealistic to campaign for FoM. Perhaps Prof. Grey could ask Freedland to explain why it had become unrealistic at that stage. It was also unrealistic to expect to remain in the EU and opt-out of FoM - so why the panic about FoM?

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  32. I remember in 2016 seeing a programme on German TV which consisted of a panel of knowledgeable journalists discussing the result of the Brexit referendum. One of them said, "They'll spend ten years trying to leave the EU, ten years complaining about it and ten years trying to get back in." Seems about right to me still.

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  33. Why can't the UK create bilateral agreements such as those between Switzerland and the European union?
    Lorenzo Anzalone

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    1. Because even between Switzerland and the EU, in those areas covered by the the Bilateral Agreements the "Four Freedoms" - most controversially FoM - apply. Getting out of FoM was the main reason for Brexit.

      Also, to get out of having the CJEU having the last word on the interpretation of EU law (Swiss Mantra "No Foreign Judges), the EU laws which are the object of the Bilaterals are explicitly written in to the Treaties and become less useful over time as the EU writes new ones which replace those covered by the Treaties (eg. medical-devices and machines) . The EU has become strangely reluctant to present its new legislation to the mixed committee for incorporation into the Bilaterals.

      Thirdly the EU wanted to build around the present and future treaties with CH an Institutional Framework which would have included the paramountcy of the CJEU to provide interpretations of EU-Law in case of a dispute.
      Remember "We will take back control of our Laws...."?

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    2. Thanks for the reply Dave. Lorenzo

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  34. If someone making a comment wants to avoid being Anonymous, they need to write in their name (or pseudonym) when "Comment as:" appears. This happens when they click on the space for making comments. They don't need a Google account. This is a different sequence from various other blogs.

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  35. An observation from having been at the rally, and hearing all of the speakers: the focus was very much on the future, and what can be done going forward to repair the damage to our relationship with the EU, with a longer view to rejoin.

    The largest cheer I heard was Mike Galsworthy, saying (I'm paraphrasing) 'that's Horizon done, next up Erasmus'.

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