There is a stereotype about the British, and perhaps especially the English, that we are unwilling to complain, and will put up with quite a bit of privation with little more than a few grumbles or, even, with the observation that ‘oh well, we mustn’t grumble’. We even sometimes seem to recognize this placidity as a characteristic of national political conduct, as when it is observed that if such-and-such ‘was happening in France then they would be on the streets’.
Whether this really is generally true, or more so than it is in other countries, I’m not sure. Nor am I sure whether, if true, it should be regarded as an endearing stoicism or an appalling apathy. It’s not even clear whether it betokens a rather cowardly fear that making a fuss would be an embarrassment or just a resigned acceptance that doing so would be pointless. But, at all events, it does seem to characterize public sentiment about Brexit.
Brexit: plenty to complain about
That, at least, is one reading of the very extensive recent polling conducted for the UK in a Changing Europe (UKICE) research centre at King’s College London (which is well worth studying in its entirety). It certainly suggests that people have something to complain about. In particular, this latest survey confirms the pattern that has been clear for some time now with only 10% of all voters (and just 18% even of 2016 leave voters) thinking Brexit has turned out well or very well (p.30).
It's true that the beliefs lying behind that are varied with, for example, 61% of leave voters thinking it will turn out well or very well ‘in the long run’, though only 30% of all voters think this (p.32). And there are many more caveats and qualifications to be made about the ‘headline’ finding about the lack of success of Brexit. These include the extent of neutral responses and ‘don’t knows’ within different voter groups, and the variety of reasons given for why it hasn’t been a success. But that headline finding is clear and important. Brexit was, after all, promoted as something which would be an unalloyed success, so the fact that so few think it has been or is going to be is, just in itself, a reason for the public to feel disgruntled.
Of course, Brexit is in some ways an abstract, or at least general, concept and, apart from those with strong commitments for and against it in abstract or general terms, it’s reasonable to think that many people are more concerned with specific issues that affect their daily lives. Yet, if so, then there, too, they have reasons for complaint about Brexit. For example, of the 79% of people who have personally noticed the cost of goods increasing over the last year, 19% think this is entirely the result of Brexit and 41% that is partly the result of Brexit. The 65% who have noticed food shortages are even more likely to think they are wholly due to Brexit (47%), with another 36% thinking them partly so. Travel delays, and staff shortages in the NHS, social care, and hospitality, are also amongst issues where, of those who have personally experienced them, the large majority think they are wholly or partly the result of Brexit. (All figures in this paragraph from p.20 of the UJICE report.)
Taken together, then, there is plenty for people to complain about in Brexit, regardless of whether they attribute it to Brexit in and of itself or only to the way in which Brexit has been undertaken. That is all the more striking considering that other likely candidates for the causes of the problems people experience in their daily lives – Covid, Ukraine, or global factors generally – are less obviously attributable to domestic political choices. For although people may well consider that the government handling of Covid, to take the most obvious example, was defective in various ways it is surely obvious that the virus was something that affected every country, one way or another. Only Brexit is entirely home-grown and entirely unique to this country.
Brexit fatigue
Yet, as Anand Menon and Sophie Stowers of UKICE highlight in their commentary on the report, “there’s a real sense of fatigue around the Brexit debate and high levels of indifference towards the future of the UK-EU relationship”. It may be (the report doesn’t cover this) that, because Brexit is so closely associated with the Tories, complaint about Brexit is manifesting itself, along with other factors, in the government’s unpopularity. But there isn’t majority support for another referendum and, were one to be held, it is by no means clear it would yield a large majority, or even necessarily a majority, to rejoin the EU.
That said, there is clear support (64%) for a “stronger relationship” with the EU, and considerable support (50%) for a “closer relationship” (pp.48-49). What lies behind the discrepancy between the two is not obvious, but perhaps it is because respondents don’t know, any more than I do, what ‘stronger’ and ‘closer’ mean in specific terms, or how they differ. At all events, although there is a degree of support for an improved relationship, in some sense, with the EU, the overall point that emerges is that most voters don’t see Brexit itself as a burning issue, even though they see it as a factor in other issues, like the cost of living and the state of the NHS, which they do see as high priorities.
Some of the reasons for this can be glimpsed in the qualitative research which accompanied the polling data, including the fatalistic one that “we’ve made our bed, let’s all lie in it” (p.28) and the idea that it would be “embarrassing” (p.47) to re-open the issue of membership. These comments both came from leave voters, but even 42% of remain voters wish “we would stop talking about the issue altogether” (p.53). There’s also a widespread sense that it is de-stabilizing and divisive to continue to do so, something which is frequently said by politicians of both main parties.
Trapped by Brexiter blackmail
All of these things may make some kind of sense, and goodness knows there must be plenty of us – including, I imagine, many readers of this blog – who are sick of Brexit and continue to feel traumatized by the divisions it unleashed. But it is important to understand that such sentiments arise in large part from a trap, or traps, which have been created by Brexiters.
On the one hand, even if they no longer try to claim that Brexit has been a success, some of them now seem to count it as a victory that they have created a situation in which it is too difficult to deal with its failure. So, far from having delivered the ‘will of the people’ for a ‘national liberation’, the Brexiters are now gleeful that the British people are stuck with something they don’t want: not just a bed, but a bed of nails, they have to lie on. On the other hand, the continuing vitriol the Brexiters have poured, daily, into the media ever since their referendum victory is an ever-present reminder that re-opening Brexit would, indeed, be hugely divisive. In effect, it is political blackmail: the constant threat that if the British people attempt to undo Brexit then Brexiters will unleash such extreme toxicity into politics that it will become unbearable.
So, in terms of that stereotype of the ‘uncomplaining Brit’, the situation is rather like being in a restaurant which, having promised a gourmet meal under its new ownership, has provided what most on the table consider to be a s*** sandwich (the asterisks aren’t my coyness, but because certain words create problems for blog feeds and search engines). But why complain? For better or for worse, the meal has been eaten and it’s ‘too late’ to make a fuss now, and anyway it would be ‘embarrassing’. Moreover, the waiter looks distinctly surly and the chef is ostentatiously, and ominously, sharpening knives in the kitchen, so it would be imprudent and possibly dangerous to do so. And, after all, there are at least some of the diners who claim to be delighted with what they have had. All in all, it’s better just to put up with things. Mustn’t grumble.
An ongoing condition
However, one of the ways in which this analogy breaks down is that Brexit is not a finite event, like a single meal at a restaurant. It is an ongoing condition: this is where we will be eating every day for the rest of our lives. A key aspect of how this is now playing out is revealed in another major recent piece of work from UKICE, Joël Reland’s latest version of the UK-EU regulatory divergence tracker which, in general terms, continues to show what is becoming an established pattern of there being relatively little divergence from the EU.
As if in confirmation, the day after that update was published, it was reported (£) that the government would not proceed with its attempt to scrap the ‘nutrient neutrality rules’, environmental protections inherited from the EU which restrict where houses can be built. On the other hand, this week the idea of scrapping EU rules capping bankers’ bonuses has to have been revived (£), having previously been seen as politically maladroit amidst Johnson’s promises of ‘levelling up, then pursued under Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng (£) as part of their deregulatory agenda before being kicked into the long grass of consultation from which it has now re-emerged.
That these developments point in different directions partly reflects the strategic incoherence of Rishi Sunak’s ad hoc approach to Brexit, which I’ve remarked upon before. These particular cases may also derive from attempts to set pre-election political traps for Labour, the first one by suggesting that Labour’s own opposition to axing nutrient neutrality rules is at odds with its promise to cut the ‘red tape’ that impedes housebuilding, the second by challenging Labour to oppose this divergence and risk damaging its attempts to develop good relations with the City.
Such political games aside, Reland, in his accompanying commentary, suggests “that non-divergence is now the status quo” in the sense that it is both Sunak’s policy, even if inconsistently so and not announced as such, and, more explicitly, is set to be Keir Starmer’s default policy if Labour win the next election. Yet, as Reland points out, there is an important difference in that, whilst the Conservatives are undertaking little in the way of ‘active divergence’ (UK changing regulations away from those of the EU), they are allowing far more ‘passive divergence’ (UK not following regulatory changes made by the EU) than, it seems, a Labour government would countenance.
There are very good reasons to avoid both passive and active divergence, which I have rehearsed so many times on this blog that I won’t do so again (see also Peter Foster’s recent book on Brexit, which I reviewed in last week’s post). One particular emerging example, the EU Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism (CBAM), mentioned by Reland and briefly discussed in one of my recent posts, forms part of an interesting analysis in Gerhard Schnyder’s most recent Brexit Impact Tracker blog. He explains that its likely effect will be to reduce UK tax receipts by billions of pounds, whilst correspondingly benefitting the EU. This, he argues, is part of a pattern whereby the ‘benefits of Brexit’ do indeed exist, but are invariably experienced by countries other than the UK.
Thus, increasingly, it is emerging that in ‘taking back control’ of its laws – which according to the UKICE polling data was the biggest motivation for leave voters (p.6) – Brexit means that what the UK loses on the swings it also loses on the roundabouts. That is, the more the UK diverges from the EU the more expensive Brexit becomes, but the less it diverges from the EU the more pointless Brexit becomes*. And all of this is quite apart from the remorseless, crunchingly negative effect of Brexit on GDP compared with what it would otherwise be – an effect exacerbated by any divergence but not ameliorated by non-divergence (and only very slightly ameliorated by greater alignment).
The full absurdity of what this all means can be seen by reference to the various models of Brexit that used to be propounded. Perhaps we could be in the single market, like Norway, gaining its economic benefits but, it was said, losing sovereignty because we would be subject to ‘fax democracy’ – receiving legislative instructions from Brussels**. That always somewhat understated the influence that Norway has but, anyway, it was deemed unacceptable, indeed deemed not to be Brexit at all, by the ‘hard Brexiters’. So we left the single market, taking the economic costs, but, now, we take legislation from Brussels not ‘by fax’ but by the inexorable economic and political logic of non-divergence.
The (ir)responsibility of the British people
It is re-visiting the form of Brexit, quite as much as re-joining the EU, that the Brexiters have made so difficult with the traps within which they have ensnared the British people. But, whilst they deserve to be judged harshly for having created them, I think that voters, and political journalists and politicians more generally, bear some responsibility. Indeed, although no doubt it would be denounced as ‘elitist’ by populists like Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg (Eton & Oxford), and is far more ‘unsayable’ than the supposedly silenced ‘debate’ about immigration, I despair of the constant vox pops showing so many voters to be puffed full of self-righteous indignation and galvanized with an invincible ignorance for which they feel pride rather than shame.
As regards Brexit, although there’s not much point harking back to it, the casual irresponsibility with which some voted for it in order to ‘give Cameron a kicking’, or because ‘it was time for a change’, or because they ‘never expected leave to win’ was disgraceful. It is far less excusable than those who were taken in by the false promises about money for the NHS or the rejuvenation of the fishing industry. It’s certainly worse than indefensible for leave voters of the former type to say that ‘we’ve made our bed, and now we must all lie in it’.
More importantly, now, there’s a deeply childish vein amongst the electorate, and the polity, in treating Brexit as if it were ‘all in the past’, ‘yesterday’s news’, from which ‘we should all move on’. It’s a mentality which is not just about Brexit; it is equally evident in relation to Covid, with people and politicians talking and acting as if it were now all over when, apart from anything else, an estimated 1.9 million people are suffering from long Covid. Perhaps politics has always been like that, but I think that the attention span is now even shorter because of the twin effect of the 24/7 news cycle and social media. Perhaps, too, the contemporary culture of victimhood, so central to Brexit but evident more generally, is antithetical to the concept of taking responsibility for choices made.
Yet Brexit, and Covid for that matter, demands a more serious response. After all, it was a major shift of the UK’s entire economic and geo-political strategy, and one which only came into practical effect less than three years ago, when the transition period ended. And this is hardly a ‘remainer’ complaint. Surely Brexiters should be the most disgruntled if their great achievement, their national liberation from ‘the EUSSR’, is now only fit to wrap fish and chips? But the answer to that is all too obvious: so evidently has it failed that they would far rather it just be accepted, undiscussed, as ‘just one of those things’ about which we ‘mustn’t grumble’.
The open secret that Brexit has failed
Of course, there are many who remain keenly attentive to Brexit and vocal in their complaints about it, by which I mean not just re-joiners but the Brexit Ultras. And, of course, it was inevitable that, gradually, the politics of Brexit and British politics generally would become less and less distinguishable. Yet there is a quiescence about the failure of Brexit which, given its centrality to politics since 2016, seems astounding.
In my previous life as an academic I co-wrote a book about secrecy in organizations, drawing in part on the concept in political anthropology of ‘public secrecy’. In very brief, this refers to shameful things which everyone knows and yet doesn’t know, an all but unsayable knowledge, akin to what is often called an ‘open secret’, of which examples can be found in many families, organizations or, as seems to be the case in Britain today, in national polities. The result is that what Schnyder calls “the Un-British Brexit benefits” are met with the all too British response of embarrassed silence.
Writing recently in the Guardian, George Monbiot discussed the political silence around Covid, and especially around its continuing effects on those with long Covid or the clinically vulnerable. His eloquent conclusion is that: “These facts – and these people – are treated as social embarrassments, locked in the government’s moral attic like a relative with a mental illness in Victorian England. They’re the country’s family secret. That coughing noise upstairs? Nothing that need concern you.”
In a similar way, the failure of Brexit and the possible solutions to it are only semi-discussable, publicly known and yet not known. For that we should blame the Brexiters who have blackmailed us into making it so, the media organizations who consider it old news, the politicians who purport to lead and to be willing to make ‘hard choices’, but follow the focus groups which want to avoid such choices. But we should also blame the electorate from which those focus groups are drawn, an electorate which, after all, made a big choice in 2016 but which now, whether from boredom or fear – or, perhaps, in some cases, shame – insists that we ‘mustn’t grumble’ about its consequences.
Notes
*To this should be added the particular dynamic as regards Northern Ireland, which in some respects is obliged to remain aligned with the EU. Thus, the more the UK (or at least GB) diverges from the EU, the ‘thicker’ the GB-NI Irish Sea border potentially becomes. This poses a particular paradox for those Unionists who are also hard Brexiters, since they desire both increased divergence and a thinner, or non-existent, Irish Sea border.
**Younger readers who may be puzzled by the reference to a ‘fax’ are referred to the Museum of Obsolete Objects. Less frivolously, Norway and its lessons for what ‘sovereignty’ means for post-Brexit Britain is the focus of what looks to be (I haven’t read it yet) an interesting new book.
Regarding the difference between stronger vs closer relationship, the intent of the survey could have been to A/B test two wordings for the same thing.
ReplyDeleteGiven that a majority thinks that Brexit has not gone well, it is logical to assume that majority would be open for improvements.
These two very similar survey questions could be an attempt to see which kind of phrasing for the same goal would get more electoral support.
The UK is in a period of hypernormalisation, a term coined by Alexei Yurchak when he defined the paradox of life in the Soviet Union. Later in post- soviet Russia, this state of social psychology, in itself a stage in the fascist playbook, was further developed by Vladislav Surkov under Putin (see also Adam Curtis's excellent documentary of the same name). Essentially, the blog today reads like shopping list of symptoms for the hypernormalisation of the British politic with regard to Brexit, but it extends beyond Brexit and covers the malaise and reverse inertia of the direction of travel for British politics in general.
ReplyDeleteBrexit is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy, and the lies that gave Brexit its success, having been normalised by specifically British characteristics, are still known to be lies, but are accepted on some level to be real. There is no alternative because there can be no alternative but to accept the status quo fostered upon itself by a politic that has been dumbed down for decades, and continues to be by the same forces that unleashed the stupidity of Brexit for their particular and minority gain. Do the British have the collective emotional and intellectual intelligence to overcome the box they find themselves in?
Does having a hereditary German family as head of state, a non written constitution and an unelected second chamber of government help or hinder this potential process of self discovery?
Until such time as the UK finds ways to objectively self asses, there remains very little possibility that countries and individuals outside the UK will take Britain seriously unless for their own circumstantial expediency.
The consolidation and expansion of this hypernormalization is reinforcing the idea that joining the EU grows further away in time and practicality- something the players that brought you the paradox of Brexit and beyond, know and exploit for their own advantage.
Interesting comment. Thank you
ReplyDeleteIt is like this with Scottish independence and a second indyref - "you had your referendum in 2014" is the refrain (from unionists in particular), trying to close off the debate. Young people in Scotland are supportive of independence, and older people for the union.
ReplyDeleteThe SNP are advocates for independence and hence a break up of "great" Britain.
I think things do hinge on a party - SNP in Scotland, and Labour in general to espound things that the Right don't like = Scottish independence (breaking up "our precious union"), or closer ties to the EU.
Once these are more established (and the Right have been defeated comprehensively - Britain could go against the grain in rejecting - for the moment - right wing populism at the next election), then demographic change and the likes of Rees-Mogg, Priti Patel et al not able to influence things as members of a governing party, things may hopefully change, and change attitudes.
David Edgerton's and Danny Dorling's work is excellent on the futures in these areas.
It's absolutely bizarre to talk about some sort of failure of Brexit. It's essentially a constitutional change in where laws are made, rather than a policy aimed at some effect.
ReplyDeleteThe closest parallel is with female suffrage -- again a broad coalition of ideological enemies united to secure constitutional change, punting debates about how those constitutional powers would be used to the future. And like with Brexit, opponents of this constitutional change sneered that women were too stupid, too uneducated, too moved by irrational passions, too influenced by gossip/fake news...
Women finally got suffrage at parity to men just before the Great Depression. Remoaner whinges about the enfranchisement of the electorate via Brexit just come off like pub bores of a century ago moaning that the government is handling the economic crisis poorly because it was voted in by women who just don't understand the economy, or that the appeasement of Hitler was driven by Chamberlain needing to appeal to the supposedly passive and unaggressive new half of the electorate.
Brexit was very much sold to the country as a proposition that, by taking back control, we would also improve the country. A dishonest promise was made that all the "savings" would be spent on improving the NHS, and that promise was pushed as the most prominent "benefit" leaving would bring.
DeleteYour attempt to make us forget that this was how the change was sold to us appears to me to be a classic example of gaslighting.
...And no doubt the author of the post would have supported the opponents of women's suffrage if around at the time.
DeleteAs you'd expect from something that united a majority of the voters, Brexit was a very wide church.
DeleteThe electorate was highly aware that the leader of the Opposition was Jeremy Corbyn; that therefore the General Election after Brexit was likely to be a big ideological battle with an uncertain victor; and that a Corbyn or a Boris or a Singapore-on-Thames victor would likely take the country in very different directions. These different directions were likely to have results that overwhelmed any direct consequence of Brexit.
The electorate knew all this. And it made a fundamental decision to empower the victor no matter who it might be and what they might do.
“The electorate knew all this” I think you are assuming far too much.
DeleteAs for the first point, notably it is Brexiters like Farage, quite as much as remainers, who are saying it has failed. That aside, the comparison with women's suffrage is entirely bogus. Apart from anything else, Brexit was proposed as something that would lead to specific (positive) outcomes in terms of public services, wages, housing, employment. Comparing the two is a transparent attempt to present Brexit as having a progressive and moral case which it doesn't remotely possess, with one obvious piece of evidence being that, so far as I know, no one prior to the Ref attempted to present it as being analagous to women's suffrage and, certainly, no major campaigner or campaign document did so. The only reason to do so now is because all the 'official' arguments for Brexit have been exposed as false.
Delete"Comparing the two is a transparent attempt to present Brexit as having a progressive and moral case which it doesn't remotely possess" Oh come on. Brexit was both the biggest expansion of the franchise since female suffrage and the biggest working class rebellion against the Establishment since the Miners' Strike. It fought and beat a counter-revolution comprising some of the most reactionary, bigoted, ignorant and imbecilic elements in our entire society. How was it not progressive lol!
DeleteAs for womens' suffrage, perhaps you're unaware that campaigners for the suffrage did point out various practical outcomes that they hoped would come from giving women the vote. Here's Jane Addams claiming that women should get the vote because it would make them more effective housewives, for instance: https://digital.janeaddams.ramapo.edu/items/show/6155 . But the point is that, like Brexit voters, women aren't some hive mind and they had different visions of the future. Suffragettes ran the absolute political gamut, from communism to fascism. It just so happened that they all agreed on the importance of women having the vote, and could work with each other on that basis.
Likewise, Brexit voters had widely varying visions of the future -- and therefore will necessarily have differing assessments of what actually happens in the future -- but they all agreed on the importance of expanding the power of the vote. And that is what to judge Brexit on.
"Working class revolt"? That would be people who were actually working - who predominantly voted for remain.
DeleteAs opposed to retired people - who worked in the past - who predominantly voted for leave.
Danny Dorling's and David Edgerton's work is excellent in this area.
(I think the author is imbibing too much from the "academic" Matthew Goodwin and his utter rubbish.)
Indeed. The above Brexit political justification/apology seems straight from Spiked. Most of the working people I know - usually in low value sectors like retail - could quite quickly work out that Brexit would just make it even more difficult to keep their heads above water - while still playing by the rules.
DeleteBrexit didn't "expand the franchise". It wasn't an anti-Establishment rebellion. And it has no resemblance to the Miners' Strike either.
DeleteNot a very convincing analogy, I'm afraid. Brexit is indeed a constitutional change, but it is one that has clearly and obviously failed to bring the benefits that were promised, nor will it bring the promised benefits in the future. It is a failure on its own terms, and in time it will be consigned to the dustbin of history.
ReplyDeleteWhy would you assume that a constitutional change would have whatever benefits you imagine? 'Tell me one tangible benefit of giving women the vote' lol!
DeletePerhaps you are not aware, but the eurozone had a terrible crisis a few years before the referendum, has not fixed its structural problems, and seems incapable of solving its structural problems. Whilst it was impossible to predict how returned powers would be used, Brexit has clearly and predictably reduced our potential exposure to another eurozone crisis in the future. 'Tell me one tangible benefit of buying insurance' lol!
Except it wasn't a "terrible crisis". The EU and euro carried on and prospered, intact. Greece - a country which previously defaulted four times from the mid 19th to mid 20th centuries - reformed, and is now stable and prospering. They now have lower government bond yields than the UK.
DeleteCompare all of this to Russia - which of course also supports Brexit.
Dear Mark Sullivan, I am very glad you have been taking advantage of the season to go foraging in the woods. I only hope that you take especial care in future as to the type of mushrooms you gather. Best wishes!
DeleteThanks very much. And best wishes to everyone at Spiked.
DeleteYou may well have seen this but the Guardian is reporting today on divergence from water standards; https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/oct/27/england-to-diverge-from-eu-water-monitoring-standards
ReplyDeleteDe-anonymising myself: Bruce Ryan
Mustn’t grumble? I am grumbling about Brexit, and will never forgive the Leave campaign people for wrecking the UK and diminishing the prospects of the younger generation.
ReplyDeleteChris Grey: you present a convincing though dispiriting analysis of the 'success' of the Brexiter putsch, though the existence of your blog is something of a counter-narrative.
ReplyDeleteWe can only do what we can to continue to present the costly and damaging failings of Brexit into public awareness and dialogue. Opposition parties, particularly Labour and even more so perhaps, the Liberal Democrats are incomprehensibly coy in this regard. Whilst there are snares in advocating a return to the Single Market or the EU, I see none in highlighting the damage that has ensued from the maladroit Brexit process. You have mentioned inflation, food supply, health and welfare services, but of course the list continues.
For each failing (where there is reason) we need to push the message into public debate: 'and this has been made worse by Brexit'.
Chris Grey: you present a convincing though dispiriting analysis of the 'success' of the Brexiter putsch, though the existence of your blog is something of a counter-narrative.
ReplyDeleteWe can only do what we can to continue to present the costly and damaging failings of Brexit into public awareness and dialogue. Opposition parties, particularly Labour and even more so perhaps, the Liberal Democrats are incomprehensibly coy in this regard. Whilst there are snares in advocating a return to the Single Market or the EU, I see none in highlighting the damage that has ensued from the maladroit Brexit process. You have mentioned inflation, food supply, health and welfare services, but of course the list continues.
For each failing (where there is reason) we need to push the message into public debate: 'and this has been made worse by Brexit'.
Given the numbers of Brexiters in government, and the government's responsiveness to the delusions of the Mail and the Express over Brexit, confrontation over the matter would be counterproductive at present. Once the Brexiters are no longer in government, and can no longer wield its power, an examination of the subject will be more worthwhile.
ReplyDelete"Mustn't grumble" - not at all. I'm furious at the lies and deceit and stupidity of Brexit in all its many ways and by all its various Brexiters. And I say so. If the Brexiters consider that to be a pub bore, then they can find another pub. This subject is not going away, and is going to get a lot worse before it might get better because the consequences are cumulative. But that said, the aim is to get even (ideally by winning Rejoin) rather than to get mad.
ReplyDeleteChris Grey continues to suggest that Labour will win the next General Election, but fails to take into account the damage they are doing to themselves by their unthinking support of Israel.
ReplyDeleteThe Palestinians have suffered decades of aggression in the form of Israeli land grabs and high tech military aggression. So it’s no wonder that they are trying to defend themselves. Ordinary British people recognise that, in the same way that we recognise Russian aggression in Ukraine.
The surprise to me is that Hamas thought they would have a chance of success with their large-scale low-tech attack. Yes, they have some hostages, but the Israeli response is carpet bombing of Gaza; so we can expect about 2.2 million dead. One theory I have heard is that the Russians gave discreet encouragement to Hamas, with the intention that the Americans would support Israel and therefore forget about supporting Ukraine. Another theory follows from the sheer unbelievability that Israel had no intelligence warning them of the Hamas attack. Possibly this intelligence was kept very secret, so that the Israeli population would demand massive retribution for the Hamas attacks, leading to the extermination of the Palestinian population in Gaza.
I see no peaceful solution. But active support of Israel (perhaps for fear of being called anti-Semitic) is not going to win anybody any elections in the UK.
So we should be working out how we will cope with yet another Tory government next year. In the same way we should be planning now for many metres of sea level rise caused by global warming. Perhaps a 50-metre high sea wall all round the UK? We have about 100 years to get it finished - so it should be done before HS2, and might be cheaper.
I have news for you: foreign policy rarely wins or loses elections. Only a small minority of voters are concerned enough about Israel~Palestine to affect how they vote. Of those, the pro-Palestinian people are mainly Labour voters, who (1) are mostly living in safe Labour areas already, and (2) have nowhere else to go with their votes. This middle eastern conflict will have an extremely limited effect on the next UK general election.
DeleteI do not accept the faintly accusatory implication of your comment that "Chris Grey continues to suggest that Labour will win the next General Election, but fails to take into account the damage they are doing to themselves by their unthinking support of Israel.". Labour are still well ahead in the polls, and to that extent my 'suggestion' holds water. On the wider issues of your post, please be aware that this blog is about Brexit and whilst that is broadly-conceived, off-topic comments are liable to be deleted.
DeleteAnother excellent and insightful post, Chris. I’d just like to linger on the difference you mentioned between English and French forms of protest. Having lived in both countries for over 10 years, and having participated in quite a few protest marches, both as participant and as photojournalist for CNN, I am convinced that the difference isn’t in the vigour of the people taking part. The main difference is how the government reacts. Four million people marched against the UK participating in the Iraq war; totally ignored by the government of the day. Same with the anti-Brexit march. This does not happen in France, or, to my knowledge, other EU countries. Protestors get taken seriously and listened to. This might not bring the desired outcome either, but more often than not a compromise is reached. Recently in France both the “Bonnet Rouge” and the “Gillet Jaune” led to the government adjusting what it was planning to do and even instigating citizen councils on many subjects. In my time in the UK the Poll Tax riots were the only ones where I can remember there being an actual change at the end of it, but that was only because there were already plenty of people within Thatcher’s government who were also not in favour of it, and her powers had already considerably waned. Had she done it in her second term I doubt she would have changed her mind. Sadly the “mustn’t grumble” attitude comes from the fact that in the UK protesting is a futile gesture; fun, but futile.
ReplyDeleteAs a nation, we have appeased Brexit - and as Stephen Fry said - deep down we all know it. Get Brexit Done in 2109 was really code for Make Brexit Go Away.
ReplyDeleteBut who cares about a bit of "divisiveness" - as Chris Grey says, the effects of Brexit are permanent and compounding. This is something we must face up to. Perhaps take note of the courageous work of Jack Smith and Fani Willis in the US, as they pursue the Trump racketeers - don't let them get away with it !
Don't apologise. You have neatly encapsulated the delusional cults of MAGA and Brexit - which brings us back on topic.
Delete@roger: I know, I think Mark got a letter wrong in "cults" (s/l/n/).
DeleteStrange how these 'weak to non-existent' legal cases have Trumps co-defendants giving testimony against him. I'd like to also point out that fascism is right-wing, not a left-wing ideology.
DeleteI'd like to point out that fascism is a process, not an ideology- and as a process the purveyors of fascist policies will use whatever ideology works to achieve their goals. Mussolini and Hitler were both socialist fascists. The recent Catalan independence movement, a textbook fascist movement, united both right and left wing parties towards a common goal. For further reading see Umberto Ecco: UR Fascism.
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DeleteNeither Hitler nor Mussolini were socialists.
DeleteAs always, extremely well put, Chris. You quote Anand Menon, who is in my opinion an acute observer and a competent number cruncher, but whose overview is sometimes questionable. I think sometimes he fails to see the wood for the trees. There is a flavour of "mustn't grumble" fatalism in much of what he says. In particular I would quibble with his repeated observation that the decision in the referendum was a trade off between economic benefits on the one hand and sovereignty on the other. I would argue, as no doubt would you, that Brexit has been very convincing negative on both fronts.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Peter, much appreciated. I don't always agree with Anand but I think one point to note is that it really is extraordinarily difficult to run a big research council funded centre with (what became) a focus on Brexit - you inevitably get flak from all sides, and have, I imagine, to be very careful about what you say. In many ways, I am much freer on this blog than I would be if I had written it as part of a publicly-funded (or funded at all) project rather than as a personal project. And, that aside, I have nothing but praise for UKICE which has produced so much really excellent research over the years.
DeleteThanks Chris. I agree. It is a very fine line to tread and one of the triumphs of Anand is that he manages to hover sufficiently above the fray that he is able to entice people like Andrea Leadsom to appear on his podcasts. But I strongly feel there are too many of us on the remain side who continue to say things like ‘you have to respect the will of the people and you can’t revisit it’. As a doctor I believe in informed consent and there never was informed consent for Brexit, nor was there any consent, informed our otherwise, for the Johnson hard Brexit. So there is nothing wrong with saying ‘let’s think again’
DeleteThanks to Prof. Grey for this opening to a discussion about how it is diffiult for the UK to acknowledge its mistakes, and for the various follow-up comments. A short and over-simplified answer might be that the Murdoch organisation heavily promoted Euroscepticism and Leave, the Murdoch organisation has a lot of political power still and our politicians and other media are reluctant to be critical. This leads to a situation where statements are made that are known to be half-true (or completely untrue) just so as to avoid a big row. If somebody says something that creates a row that turns out to be true, what is remembered is the row rather than who was right.
ReplyDeleteIt is also linked to the fear of politicians and many in the media of engaging with the reality of the complexity of the modern world. Pandemics, antibiotic resistance, climate change and the energy transition, the politics of the Middle East etc etc are wicked problems that have no simple solution. All decisions will be very hard choices. Focus group discussions may reveal how little the general public know about a subject (or how they have been misinformed by the media) and what you will need to explain to them. That is, however, not how focus group discussions are normally used. I once had a conversation with Philip Gould who said that they are used to test various sound-bites that resonate with certain sections of the electorate whose votes are being sought (with very little concern about how true the sound-bite is). In that way, myths become the building blocks of politics. The UK was not oppressed in the EU and it was not going to get a better deal by leaving or threatening to leave - few people in politics or the media are going to acknowledge that they should have known that in 2015.
Thanks and I agree. Your 2nd para especially I think is spot on, though I wonder whether it was always so and, if not, what changed?
ReplyDeleteI think that there has been a slow and steady change over the last 50 years. My conversation with Philip Gould was just over 30 years ago, which was about the time that that style of focus group was becoming common. Politicians also became closer to the media who were supposed to hold them to account at about that time.
DeleteIt’s some time since I last read one of your posts and perhaps the reason is lack of looking at Twitter-I won’t accept the new name. Nor will I accept that B has been done. Keep posting and I’ll be sure to keep reading, BTW I don’t recall being able to comment in the past- what changed and when?
ReplyDeleteI re-enabled comments a few weeks ago, details here: https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/p/comments-policy-and-related-matters.html
ReplyDeleteIf you want to be sure of not missing posts without using Twitter, you might want to sign up for the email alerts
"Nor am I sure whether, if true, it should be regarded as an endearing stoicism or an appalling apathy. It’s not even clear whether it betokens a rather cowardly fear that making a fuss would be an embarrassment or just a resigned acceptance that doing so would be pointless."
ReplyDeleteSince the "mustn't grumble" attitude was part of British/ English tradition (along with stiff upper lip) long before Brexit and people are weirdly still proud of it, I see this as a big problem for a country that, while not an actual modern democracy, claims and believes they are a modern non-autocrat country despite the monarchy because of parliament.
Because if Britain/ England wants to become a modern democracy - which I think would be necessary not only for re-joining, but because it's better system than the current mess - then it needs democratic citizens; an old but nevertheless still true phrase that democracies fall if not enough people believe in and want democracy compared to those who want a strong leader, which is populism and thus a variant of or at least a seed-bed for, facism.
The philosophical view behind "Mustn't grumble" - not that a lot of pensioneers, sun-readers etc. think about the philosophy, there is still one behind it - is (to me at least) in British context one where:
a normal person, that is, not Oxbridge elite, has no influence at all on politics
a normal person has less rights than the elite (some are more equal than others) which also leads inevitably to hating on minorities as the only outlet, entrechning and deepening social divisions - as compared to modern democracies with rights for all which people can go all the way to court to demand, and where therefore, as humanistic/ logical derivate of human dignity etc., the state is expected to provide a base level of dignified life - so less food banks and more enough social net to buy food - and use education and aids to improve the position of poor, minorities etc. to heal divides in society
a normal person can not expect their lives to improve, and thus should not only not demand improvement from government (see above), but simply shut up and accept whatever mistreatment their (Tory) masters inflict on them
any complaints are not acceptable or justified or worthy enough to be looked at to make improvements, they can be brushed aside by the masters, which also diminishes the role of opposition to give factual critique of badly implemented, mis-managed or badly-thought out policies, laws etc.
Of course in other contexts "Mustn't grumble" could be a legitimite and reasonable answer, eg to endless complainers who prefer complaining (victimhood) to actually trying anything to improving things. But in the greater picture of the attitude shown by segments of the British population, and how press and Westminister politicans invoke it/ react to it, that is the problem underneath I see.
So I would want the broad citizens to have a change of attitude:
yes, all humans have rights, no matter where on the social ladder they are, or how much white English blood they have
yes, all people should fight for their rights to a decent life, and try to get the government to implement plans to improve things (especially since a lot of projects, many of them EU, have helped improve - competently planned and implemented, it can work!)
- which also needs written constitution to actually be able to go to court for written-down rights
so that this phrase and attitude of "Mustn't grumble" disappears.
I hope it's a generational thing, that the 30-40 year old (and younger) international-thinking, modern, educated generation sees the wrongness of this attitudes and it will die out with the sun readers.